CHEM 2421

I'm going to be honest with you; this class sucks. I found it to be easier than first semester lab just because I was used to writing the lab reports. However, there are significantly more mechanisms to memorize and the lab reports are heavily focused on the mechanisms. The only positive is that the reports are less "concept" heavy and more straightforward. I did below average both semesters on the final exams and managed to get b+'s. This is how rank plays a part - as having a higher rank DOES impact your final grade. If I could do this class again, I would try and study the mechanisms after each lab and review them throughout the semester. Trying to memorize them a couple of weeks before the final is not long enough - especially with other finals. Review the mechanisms!!!! I cannot stress this enough. Also, Dr. Hunt really is approachable and sweet. If you have questions or need help with mass spec, go to him. He is more than willing to help. My last bit of advice is to find someone who has the rubrics from their TA's - it will save your rank. Other than this, good luck!

HARD, NOT IMPOSSIBLE. If you go to lecture, TA office hours, and dedicate 10ish hours to your report every week, you will likely succeed on reports and post lab questions. If you STUDY EARLY and understand and memorize the experiments as much as humanly possible, you have a good chance of beating the average on the final. This course is a huge time commitment and can be a pain, but hard work pays off. It will not wreck your GPA if you work to make sure it doesn't.

Tip-- record Hunt's lectures and then listen to them and type out what he says as you follow the notes... it makes for a great report outline

Professor Hunt's lectures are hard to follow because his monotone just put you to sleep. A lot of people didn't go to lectures because he posts everything online but I thought they were helpful because he mentions things that aren't on the notes but is relevant on the postlabs or lab reports. I would definitely go to your TA office hours because they're the ones grading your lab reports. You don't get the rubric for the lab reports (ok a few TAs gave them out) so you have to go to office hours to see what they want included in the reports. The post labs aren't too difficult because it's always based off of Hunt's notes but if you go to TA office hours, they will basically tell you the answer/tell you how to do it. I also went to the head TA recitations which I thought were helpful in understanding the material. You also get a rank in your section and I don't really know what the purpose of this is. BUT none of this matters because the final is basically like 95% of your grade. Even if you're bottom rank, you can get an A in the class if you ace the final. The final is REALLY REALLY DIFFICULT. That final is probably one of the hardest exams I've ever taken in my life. Make sure you memorize absolutely EVERYTHING from the semester, and I mean EVERYTHING. Every intermediate, side product, reaction mechanisms, what reacts were used, etc. I actually really enjoyed learning the material in this course but the final ruined everything. I did okay in the class but his grading system is set up so that 50% get Cs and below so good luck. Absolutely do not take unless you're a chem major.

This class was honestly one of the most difficult ones I've ever taken, mostly due to the sheer amount of time and effort required to receive a good grade. The actual chemistry itself was quite doable, but many of the concepts were covered in lab before we saw them in lecture, which could be confusing. Every week, there are a lab report and post lab questions due. Some of the post lab questions are challenging, but if you go to office hours with an honest effort, the TAs can help you with the answers. Based on your lab report and post lab grades, you are ranked within your lab section, although I'm still not sure what kind of bearing this has on your final grade. The final exam IS hard, but if you study hard (aka start before exam week!) you'll be fine.

I ended up getting a good section rank and final grade in this class. I know that I personally like to read these reviews, so here's my advice on this course for anyone who is interested. First, go to Professor Hunt's lab lecture every week and take notes on everything that comes out of his mouth. When writing lab reports, go through these notes and make sure everything he mentioned is addressed in your report. This will ensure that your lab reports are high quality, which can help you secure a good rank in your section. Second, go to TA recitation! It can help you see the big picture of the experiment, and there's usually good tips on what to include in your lab report. Third, hit up as many office hours as you can every week to get help with the post lab questions and lab reports. Fourth, when studying for the final exam, make sure you know ALL the mechanisms, and practice writing them out multiple times for every experiment. You will be tested on it! For this class, it's not what you do in lab, but what you do outside of lab that counts! Everyone is good at chemistry, so it really boils down to who is willing to do the work. Good luck!

I know a lot of people run from this class due to its reputation as a grade-wrecker. I think justifiable- if you are pre-health.

Professor Hunt is actually very friendly- he has a crusty exterior.

You really need to crush the final to do well in this class, honestly it might take up to 2 straight weeks of studying to be fully prepared for the final. Uninterrupted weeks.

Just keep pace with lab reports, obviously put effort but don't worry to much about your rank. Just make sure that you are understanding everything- crucial for the final

Also, you may want to record, transcribe Hunt. I feel like its helpful!

Orgo Lab 2 is no joke. We didn't have Prof. Hunt Fall 2014 and the Spring 2015 class average was the lowest in a while (46% I believe). Hunt may seem like some salty, unapproachable old man. However, he's very helpful and kind if you go to him. Go to lecture and take really good notes or record him. Don't screw around since he emphasizes things on the final. Make good note of these!!!!!!! Sit in the front row as he's quiet. Write your mechanisms as much as you can. Those are crucial for understanding the procedure, reagents, mole ratios, solvents, intermediates, transition states, and side products that will show up on the final. You literally have to know everything from memory for this final.

Get a good rank in your section if you don't want a bad grade (whatever that may be in your case). A good rank won't protect you from a bad grade, but it's still crucial; I will attempt to explain this phenomenon later. Do your lab reports early (I started the night after my lab) and attend TA office hours. Some TA's like a lot of theory, some only care about more efficient procedures from novel research, and some just don't care. It's up to you to find out what he/she wants. You're gonna get wrecked if you don't figure this out early. Do you post lab questions early too since they can get pretty rough. Hunt usually answers them in lecture, so there's more incentive to attend.

Grading is strange. Let's say there are two sections: a and b. a and b both have 5 students a; they were ranked by how good their lab reports, post lab questions, and evaluations by their TA at the end of labs for the semester. Then comes the final. Section a kids killed it and earned 2 A's and 3 B's; Section b kids dropped the ball and earned 3 C's, 1 D, and 1 F. After reshuffling rankings after the final (I have no idea how Hunt/TA's do this), The top two ranked people in section a got A's (because their collective section earned two A's) while the bottom three earned B's (see the pattern?). The top three kids in section b earned C's, the 4th earned a D, and the 5th kid got caught with his pants down and f-ing failed. Thus, it's the final plus how well your section did in relation to the others that determines your overall grade in the class.

I got an A+ (lol what a douche). Thus, I feel like my strategy for succeeding is effective . Per week I spent ≈15 hours writing each lab report (lots of editing and outside research got me the #1 spot in my section) and ≈ 5 hours on post lab questions/ writing mechanisms. To study for the final, I spent five days trying to understand and memorize each lab and the mechanisms behind them. The first two days were light since I had other exams, but the last three days had nonstop studying for orgo lab. I also met with other people from my group to go over things we might not have understood. In the end, I was able to write all the mechanisms out on the exam, but still made some dumb mistakes. Either you knew the mechanism, solvent, stoichiomety, reagent, etc. on the final or not. Very brutal and unforgiving. Do not take this class with more than 2 legit science classes (ie not analytical chem/ anatomy&phys level ones).

It is possible to get an A in this class, but you will have to put ≈ 20 hrs of work in. I wouldn't say I'm the smartest kid since I barely made B's in Leung's Gen Chem and earned a C in physics lab. Stay on top of your game and you'll survive. Going through a year of orgo lab is tough, but any chemistry major/ premed who wants to succeed will put in the work.

Best of luck. It's hard work, but it feels great to see it pay off. Plus, all the experiments were interesting and relevant to orgo lecture material. Taking the chemical century with richard sundberg also reinforced these orgo lab principles.

Tl;dr: Only take if you're a chem major. ≈ 20 hrs/week of work might get you an A. Grade is determined by your final grade, your ranking, and your section's performance. Prof. Hunt is awesome. Take good note of what he emphasizes in lecture. Start lab reports early and go to TA's office hours; ask them how they want you to write them. Good luck. Hard work pays off.

Decent class. Pretty easy. Warning: there is a $1 fee for towel replacement. Would not have taken it if I had known about this hidden fee.

Still doing chromium (VI) oxidations...

That's all that needs to be said.

All the carebears that gave this class a good review are going to be the same ones to lead the department to a hefty EPA violation because they dumped their oxidation waste down the sink.
St8

Class is a substantial amount of work, but you learn more than you will taking any other class at UVA. Dr. Hunt is awesome, and getting a good grade is very attainable. In all honesty, I thought I failed both finals, but somehow got an A on both. It is sad to see he won't be teaching next year; people are really missing out on not having Hunt

Yes, this is a hard class. What are you going to do about it? Let it affect your dream to become a doctor? Put 15-20 hours/week into this class and you can pull off an A. Haha I guess that's easier said than done. You can finish your reports by starting them on the day before they are due but are they going to be good? Are they going to help you study for Hunt's final? No. If you want to do well, you need to start early and spend a solid 10 hours/week on the reports. Go to Mike's reviews and record them even - to say this helps is an understatement. Go to TA office hours. Go to Hunt's office (he is quite friendly in person).

dope class. have fun kids

This class is tough, but not as bad as people say. Hit the ground running the first day, and don't half ass your work. You WILL get what you put in.

Hunt's lecture's were more entertaining this semester. Work out the mechanism before class and try to understand what each reagent does - not only does this make understanding the material easier, you'll have to do less studying/reviewing in the long run.

Mike's a life saver. Miss a lecture? Count on Mike. Couldn't work ahead and felt lost during lecture? Ask Mike. But don't waste people's time by asking mundane or stupid questions - try to think for yourself.

The final's tough. Good luck.

Hunt is a terrible professor. I'm pretty confident that he bases the entire semester grade on the final exam (even though he says it's a mixture of rankings/your final exam score). To get an A on the final exam this past semester, you needed to get a 36/50. To get a B, you needed to get a 30/50. Sounds easy, right? No.
It's impossible to get an A if you don't go to Mike's recitations. Mike's a great teacher, but even he can't prepare you for the utterly stupid questions that appear on the final exam.

Take this in the summer unless you've already taken other premed courses in the summer... this class will take up all your time and suck the life out of you... or you won't get a good grade... or BOTH!

If you want to do well in this class, you had better make it your full-time job. What you do during the lab hour matters very little. Your performance on the lab reports and postlab questions rank you within you 10-15 person lab section. Your lab section's collective grades on the final determine how many As, A-s, B+, etc. the lab section has earned. The final is one of the most notoriously hard finals in the college. You are required to memorize every mechanism for every experiment completed during the year so you can identify obscure resonance structures and intermediates. Do not take this class if you can help it.

This class is really hard, but required for pre-meds. It is not about how well you are doing in orgo lecture, but rather how well you can apply those concepts and write about them in the weekly lab report. I thought some of the experiments were kind of fun compared to gen chem lab, but they take a long time and can sometimes result in no yield, which is very frustrating. This class is a marathon, not a sprint, do son't fall behind or lose motivation or else your grade will suffer.

This course is definitely not easy. Be prepared for this to take up your entire life. In order to get a decent grade, you need to attend pretty much everything: lab lecture, recitation, and office hours. Even then, your grade is on a curve so you can still get a bad grade even though you were ranked decently high in your section. A good grade is pretty much determined by the final. Tom Dawson wasn't very helpful, nice guy, but you can also attend other office hours which may be more useful.

This class is tough, but not as hard as people say. For lab you go in and perform an experiment and then you have to write up a lab report explaining the theory and your results. If you write a good report, these end up being about 4 pages single-spaced. It sounds daunting, but there's a review session every week led by a TA and he goes through everything you need to know. The material isn't that tough to grasp, the tedious part is synthesizing all of it into a report. I would also recommend a recorder for these.

Most people are confused with how the grading works, so I'll break it down for you. Basically everybody in the lab is divided into lab sections of 15 people headed by a different TA. The TA grades your lab reports, lab notebook, post-labs (basically a worksheet with a few questions on the lab you just did), and whatever else; this past semester we had random quizzes during lab. You're then given a rank in the lab, but being #1 in your section doesn't guarantee an A+. The final exam serves two purposes: it re-ranks you within your section (if you were #1 and flunked the final chances are your rank's gonna drop) and it determines what kind of letter grades will be assigned to your section. Your section's performance on the final is compared to how well other sections did. Sections who did well on the final will have better letter grades assigned to their section, so if your section had 3 "A's" assigned to it, then the top three ranked people would get those A's, and so on.

That being said, the lab reports, pre-lab notebook entries, and post-labs took me anywhere from 8-10 hours a week to finish. Take that with a grain of salt though, because I'm kind of a perfectionist and was really nitpicky about my stuff. It's an endurance contest, because grinding out a report like that every week wears you down, and in the end I think it's whoever puts in the time that'll get that #1 rank and that A+. So just don't get lazy, as cliche as that may sound. Get those reports out of the way as soon as you can, because writing a report the night before is crazy.

As far as the final is concerned, go through the postlabs and write down all the mechanisms over and over. There can be some slight variations on how each mechanism is written (little things like proton transfers, etc.) which got frustrating, and Hunt likes to throw in answer choices like "A+B" "B+C" "All of the Above". Just do the practice final in the back of the lab manual to get a feel for these kinds of questions.

Spend A LOT of time doing the post lab questions and lab reports. Go to lectures and make sure you understand each step of the lab/reaction mechanisms. If you're the top of your lab group, you'll probably get an A in the class.

Spend lots of time studying and writing lab reports, they help when it comes to the final. which isn't impossible. just understand everything and Hunt is helpful if you go to him

As much as I hated 2410/20, I loved the labs. As long as you read the lab book ahead of class and go to lectures, you can easily be the top scoring student in your section. Although a good TA helps with that as well.

This is the hardest class I've taken at UVa. Lab reports take forever to write and in the end they aren't worth that much. You'll spend a lot of time pondering how the grading works. You get ranked amongst your lab section based on your lab reports because every section has a different TA. I was ranked near the bottom of my lab section, but still got an A- because I studied my ass off for the final and was presumably in a smart lab section. If everyone in your lab section does well on the final then you're in good shape. Learn every single step of every single mechanism as well as all reagents and catalysts used in the lab and you'll succeed. Not for the faint of heart but also not the end of the world.

The lab reports are very doable but the final is extremely difficult.

This class really isn't as bad as everyone says. Dr. Hunt is a good lecturer and his lectures are really helpful for writing the lab report if you record them and take the time to understand the material. He is a lot calmer this semester, and even makes funny jokes in class. With that being said, be prepared to work. Don't take the class, knowing that it will be difficult, and then complain that you received a C but spent 5 hours a week on the lab reports. That's because the people who received As spent 10+ hours a week on the lab reports and truly understood the material. Yes, there is a lot of memorization for the final, but if you have to memorize every step of every mechanism, then you're doing something wrong. If you understand the material and work hard, you will receive a good grade and learn a ton about Orgo. Yes, this class is the pre-med weed out course, but idiots and lazy people can't be doctors...

Also, Dr. Hunt's grading system does make sure that those who deserve As receive them. I wouldn't be shocked if the negative comments you see below were made by the students who thought 5 hours a week would suffice.

And while your TA does influence your experience with the course, you're not necessarily screwed with a bad TA. My TA last semester was horrible- he always skipped parts of the labs and discouraged us from explaining the mechanisms in our lab reports. While this was a great timesaver, it put the entire section at a huge disadvantage for the final. I taught myself the material, studied a ridiculous amount for the final, and received an A in the course.

By the way, Brandon Wade is a great TA. He's really helpful, is good at explaining things, and always makes himself available to students.

Terrible TA...condescending, rude...tried to arbitrarily take off points from my lab reports because I refused to suck up to this jerk unlike many of my classmates. Asked for a regrade from Hunt and ended up with a B. Hunt is actually really nice and was more than willing to explain topics I didn't understand for the final. I actually got extra help one on one with him and it helped a lot. Stay after lecture and ask for some help. He's really an awesome teacher, but you usually don't get the personalized attention in lecture.

Hard as ballls, like other people have said, you have to spend at least 6 hours a week per lab/lab report/learning lab. It is absolutely essential. I didn't do this first semester and did terribly, spent at least 5 hours a week this year and am doing quite well. Remember, the more time you spend with something the more you will know it, and the easier it will come on the hardest final exam you will ever take in your entire life.

Great TA this semester. Still the same hard professor as before.

Tough if you can't stand a little pressure, otherwise just take it easy and take your time on the lab reports and you will be fine. The final will be hard, but not impossible if you memorize, well, everything...

Labs and reports weren't too hard as long as you understood the theory behind the experiments. Having a good TA who is willing to help you is helpful, though it doesn't really matter if your TA grades hard or easy, because everyone in your section will be judged the same in the section ranking. Basically your final exam grade determines your final overall grade. Don't be fooled by the fact that the final exam only counts for 20% of your final grade. I went and spoke with Hunt and his reasoning is that you only deserve an A in the class if you get an A on the final exam. You can work your ass off in the class and write top notch reports, but still get destroyed by his killer final and end up with a miserable grade.

Dr. Hunt is not as cruel as the grades would show. He is a good lecturer. But be warned, regardless of you're T.A. lab reports will again take much longer although post labs are easier as they focus on mechanisms for the most part. DO THE SAMPLE FINAL AFTER EACH LAB. It really helps. Be prepared for another hard final, it will be much more manageable than the 1st semester though. STRUCTURES STRUCTURES STRUCTURES!

I never got the impression that Dr. Hunt was some malicious or bitter man trying to punish students. He made jokes in lecture (though he does have a wry sense of humor) and was flexible and understanding when I had to reschedule my final exam. True, this class is hard and requires a lot of work. Sometimes, nobody in the section gets results. I don't think that Dr. Hunt is to blame, though. This is organic chemistry lab - it isn't supposed to be easy. To do well, you have to be willing to put in the hours.

I wanted to hurt myself because it was so hard. I've never had such a hard class before. You might be able to do it.. but honestly, I was trying to pass after a couple of the first couple of labs and lab reports.

If you start early and work hard, you'll be okay. But sometimes, it's a hit or miss. Maybe you'll be fine. Just for me... I know I got owned. Hard.

wow. terrible class. you literally open up ISIS and have NO idea what grade you are going to see on your transcript. this class WILL take over your life. hunt told us he aims for the average final to be a 55. just get through it, it sucks for being a year long, and your non pre med friends will be so sick of you bitching about orgo lab. this class stole 15 hours of my life every week my whole year that i will never get back. i have never in my life been so excited for a class to be over-the only good thing is i have heard from someone at uva med if you can get through hunt's orgo lab, you can get through ANYTHING in life. have fun next year

This class is as terrible as everyone says. Even though we often finished the weekly 4-hour labs early, the reaction mechanisms and related concepts for each lab were much more difficult to understand and retain. Really understand the reactions while you write the lab report so that it makes studying for the final a lot easier. Dr. Hunt was a good lecturer when he wasn't going too fast and he knows all of the labs so well that he can answer basically any question. I respect him as a professor, but I definitely despise his class because of the unfair grading system and the impossible final (you basically need to remember every intermediate, starting product, transition state, side product, product, etc of every reaction). Hope for a good TA (if not, go to other TA office hours) and work diligently on the lab reports and post lab questions. This class takes over your life, so don't take it unless you have to.

The course that will destroy your pre-med dreams.

This class really is as horrid as everyone says. It is made horrid just to be horrid. Dr. Hunt is MUCH better than Dr. MacDonald (perhaps the worst professor I've ever encountered), but that's like compairing rotten oranges to moldly apples -- either way, they still seem to be inedible. His grading structure is unfair, basing his grades of an individual student on the failure of others, yet he still manages to stay on staff at UVA because he's a brilliant researcher and good lecturer. I personally liked Dr. Hunt (overall) as a person, yet his class was simplely a terrible experiance. Don't take it unless you HAVE to.

Hunt is a total jerk. He makes his finals ridiculously tough compared to the day-to-day rigors of the course. He has a grudge against undergrads and I guess keeping people out of med school is his sick fantasy. I got a B first semester and somehow I ended up with a C- second. Thats due to the magic of his mystery grade system. Nobody knows how it works

A lot of people complain about the grading system, but I thought it was better than the general chemistry labs where so many students are bunched together in the top 40% of the class that there is no statistically significant distinction between a B student and an A student. Hunt's horrific final, if nothing else, is a way to guarantee uniformity across lab sections where some TAs grade more easily than others. With that being said, it is still one of the most intimidating courses you'll find at UVa, and you may struggle on the final if you are not good at multiple choice tests.

Very difficult class, although that point seems to beat a dead horse. Hunt is very, very intelligent, almost too intelligent for his own good. His lectures were very informative with a prelude to the lab, relevent background information and applied uses, and even a few jokes here and there. From my experiences, I've learned that lab reports and rank are too competitive especially since I feel like Hunt bases your grade solely on the final exam score. It's near impossible, and if you get near 100%, he'll make you take another oral exam. That's how sure of himself he is. Hunt is a great professor; however, this class is the hardest class I've taken and by far the "least fun."

Hunt got a better sense of humor, although sparse at that. The labs are much more interesting although less students have continued after having trouble with 241L. Don't take this class personally because your final grade is arbitrary.

Lectures are decently clear, but Hunt doesn't like interacting with students. Try saying "hi" to him or saying "thank you" after speaking with him in his office. I tried both and each time his response was either silence or an incomprehensible mumble. Essentially, he's a researcher masquerading as a teacher. He may think the grading system is fair, but how can you call something fair when your grade depends in large part on the performance of other people? It can't be that difficult to provide the TAs with solid guidelines about how to grade reports to ensure consistency across the board.

Worthless class.

THIS CLASS IS REALLY FUN AND INTERESTING! oh wait, i got confused. What I meant to say was that this class is basically the worst thing ever and avoid it at all costs unless you are pre-med and have to take it. And even then, take it over the summer

Terrible Class terrible professor terrible. TERRIBLE

A very un-fun class. No one is really sure how the grading system works, which makes everyone super-competitive and on-edge all semester. The final is the hardest you'll take.